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 Flying with "The Few"

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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Flying with "The Few"   Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:19 am

This was essentially a combined practice:

The original idea was that they help us to be ready to fight JG11. Unfortunately JG11 seen unlikely to accept the challenge however.

First 2 rounds we flew against "The Few" and I noticed our game has gone up a notch with even more communication and situational awareness.

Next Marc Seabass and I flew with Bruv and one other with two of them with Kling, Kvuo and 83. I asked Bruv and the other pilot (sorry I am not good and rememnbering names) to give a running commentry.

High E (Fast Plane) v Turn plane (109e v Hurri).

!) They fly very much as a group and have a plan for this tyoe of situation.

2) They grab the high ground by gaining altitude and preserving E. This is achived by a minnimum smooth turning with climbing exploiting greater engine power etc.

3) When assembled above they tend to atack the highest plane in the group below in a slashing style which encourages the planes below to come up in the follow on. They look for the plane closest to stall to then hit while covering each others sixes.

4) If one of the lower force bcomes seperated they allow a maximum of 2 to pusue that lone plane and kill it.

Turn Plane (Hurri) vs 109e

They thought the Hurri a poor match for the 109e because the spped differnce is so great and would favour the Spit 1 Here.

The idea is to draw the 109,s down again saving E by making minimal evasive manovres and encouraging the atacking 109 to turn. Bleeding E and bring the 109's down among the Hurri's.

I will send the to Bruv and see if he has anything to add.

Generally "The Few" have allot of combined experience and are used to working together and winging up. They have a very goos understancding of the Plane set and can fly well enough to be constantly taking in the majority of the battle.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:07 am

Yarbles wrote:
This was essentially a combined practice:

The original idea was that they help us to be ready to fight JG11. Unfortunately JG11 seen unlikely to accept the challenge however.

That sucks

First 2 rounds we flew against "The Few" and I noticed our game has gone up a notch with even more communication and situational awareness.

Key elements

Next Marc Seabass and I flew with Bruv and one other with two of them with Kling, Kvuo and 83. I asked Bruv and the other pilot (sorry I am not good and rememnbering names) to give a running commentry.

I belive Bruv, RumbleB, Colleen and Connery.

High E (Fast Plane) v Turn plane (109e v Hurri).

!) They fly very much as a group and have a plan for this tyoe of situation.

2) They grab the high ground by gaining altitude and preserving E. This is achived by a minnimum smooth turning with climbing exploiting greater engine power etc.

3) When assembled above they tend to atack the highest plane in the group below in a slashing style which encourages the planes below to come up in the follow on. They look for the plane closest to stall to then hit while covering each others sixes.

4) If one of the lower force bcomes seperated they allow a maximum of 2 to pusue that lone plane and kill it.

Turn Plane (Hurri) vs 109e

They thought the Hurri a poor match for the 109e because the spped differnce is so great and would favour the Spit 1 Here.

Agree

The idea is to draw the 109,s down again saving E by making minimal evasive manovres and encouraging the atacking 109 to turn. Bleeding E and bring the 109's down among the Hurri's.

I will send the to Bruv and see if he has anything to add.

Generally "The Few" have allot of combined experience and are used to working together and winging up. They have a very goos understancding of the Plane set and can fly well enough to be constantly taking in the majority of the battle.


Was fun but im still not sure how to acctually get them to bleed more E then me.
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:40 am

[quote="Klingan"]
Yarbles wrote:
Was fun but im still not sure how to acctually get them to bleed more E then me.

I shall ask Very Happy
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:25 am

MORE ON THIS


High E (Fast Plane) v Turn plane (109e v Hurri).

!) They fly very much as a group and have a plan for this type of situation.

2) They grab the high ground by gaining altitude and preserving E. This is achived by a minnimum smooth turning with climbing exploiting greater engine power etc.

This depends on the plane matchup, you cannot always achieve this if your flying a same plane duel. The 109 E happens to be faster and rolls better than a hurrimk 1 so it is preferable to adopt a vertical climbing approach than the hurri's superior flat turning ability.

3) When assembled above they tend to atack the highest plane in the group below in a slashing style which encourages the planes below to come up in the follow on. They look for the plane closest to stall to then hit while covering each others sixes.

[size=18]The nearest guy to the ropeee, will call it on vox stating who he will clear, anyone else nearby will then look to clear the guy picking up the rope. Usually this setup would attract more than one guy to come up and try and clear his friend. The key is to give the enemy no room to breath and always have the extra man ready to force the break turn. You take a shot, if you miss you go straight, check your 6 and begin another gentle climbing turn to assess the next target/biggest threat. This is paramount in defeating a plane that has superior turn rate than yours. Speed and roll rate should control the fight.[/size]4)

If one of the lower force bcomes seperated they allow a maximum of 2 to pusue that lone plane and kill it.

If you can trust the guy on his 6 to put him away i'd say no more than one plane on an enemy, if you have a local number advantage stick together, if your squaddies need help elsewhere you have to come away and help them.

Turn Plane (Hurri) vs 109e

They thought the Hurri a poor match for the 109e because the speed differnce is so great and would favour the Spit 1 Here.

if you can get them to agree to the spit1 rather than the hurri 1 do it

The idea is to draw the 109,s down again saving E by making minimal evasive manovres and encouraging the atacking 109 to turn. Bleeding E and bring the 109's down among the Hurri's.

You have to bait them down and evade, get some guys climbing if they don't get out numbered up high, try and get the german planes fighting your fight and not theirs

I will try and get this last point expanded. Wink
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:42 am

Bruv Wrote:

[color=blackAs for equalising energy states in the hurri you need to bait them down, get them to commit and have people who aren't being attacked climbing. When they are high enough to dive in with speed, as long as the 109's keep missing their targets hopefully the hurri with Energy will be able to get close enough to put them down or get them into evasives. At this point the 109 in trouble will have his buddies come help and hopefully if they make the mistake of getting dragged into the furball the hurri's better turn will win it.
If your fast but low, you can climbup and potentially get a shot on someone doing the opposite, see High and Low yoyo's

ideally you will get a pair of guys at least Co E with the 109's to force them to fight when they go after them. if the 109's know what they are doing they will look to gang the guys getting higher, in this situation the high guys will have to dive away and DRAG them down, if it seems you have a good 109 pilot on your 6 bust a move, overshoot / reverse him, he will go back up and reset his pass, whilst someone is doing this the other hurris who were lower will be hopefully building their speed up in the hope that the 109 that does drop in starts turning,

if the guy dragging can bring 1 or 2 enemy lower than the rest of your pack , the pack takes over chasing the 109's whilst the guy that was dragging has to check everyone elses six, as more enemy pile in to help the 109's in trouble, the guys doing the shooting have to check their 6 for the pickers, all in all this situation would hopefully descend into an all our turning furball, this is the hurri's only [/color]hope.
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:51 am

Anyone who takes the trouble to read this will see that it is a basic blueprint for a team action fighting both ways for 2 different but archityple types of plane. A bnzer and turner.

I can see it will work either way if the whole team are working to the same plan.

This is the benefit of training with a much more accomplished squad but to use it it is necessary to learn the tactic both ways and practice it.

If "The Few" agree to fly with us again I will try and get more information of this sort and more tips on how they remain undefeated in these type of events.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:55 am

cheers cheers
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:12 pm

Klingan wrote:
cheers cheers

I hope the rest of our squaddies didnt give up halfway down this page. Anyone who gets this far please leave a mark. Especially you Marc. You were keen to learn something and I think its there but maybe not what you expected however in my experience it seldon is.

Its fighting as a team according to a plan. Idea
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Curnutte
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PostSubject: A Mark   Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:27 pm

I've read it and like it . more please if I print it I'll not need toilet paper for a long time LOL.
Really Yarb's and Kling keep it coming . I need a break at work from time to time so I read it .
Thanks guys Nutte
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kvuo75
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:15 pm

i read it, and as with everything i read, i say.. easier said than done..


we neeed alot of work on the basics..

SA, judging E of enemy, etc. etc.
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Mobus
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:06 am

kvuo75 wrote:
i read it, and as with everything i read, i say.. easier said than done..


we neeed alot of work on the basics..

SA, judging E of enemy, etc. etc.

Much Much easier said, than done.

Vu is right...I know I practice my SA, and many times that,s why I'm not as agressive and don't get kills, but I survive to bring home my 1 kill and 3 assists.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:09 am

Well sure, we need to work on everyting. But we need to start somewhere Smile

I thought that the communication this time was much better then the last time.
But it is still a onesided communication. We need the guy with the bogey on his six to tell his intentions. Makes it easier for the wingman to decide the best action to kill the bogey.
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:21 am

Mobus wrote:
kvuo75 wrote:
i read it, and as with everything i read, i say.. easier said than done..


we neeed alot of work on the basics..

SA, judging E of enemy, etc. etc.

Much Much easier said, than done.

Vu is right...I know I practice my SA, and many times that,s why I'm not as agressive and don't get kills, but I survive to bring home my 1 kill and 3 assists.

Hey no one said it would be easy lol!

BUT we can all grab the high ground together in faster plane like the 109e quite easily and support the leader in his atacks and follow on. The leader will call the first atack I guess and the rest will support and repeat as long as no one follows down to far. Obvioulsy it takes allot of perfecting but at least we now have A PLAN cheers

When we are in the turn plane we support the leaders atack on the bottom of the high group and try to climb up to them as a group. As they come down to keep us down we try to grab the 6 of the atacker and his support etc.

NOW if as is highly likely its doesnt go just right the first time we try it. Can I humbly suggest we dont throw the whole idea out. Can I beseach all those involved to give it a bit of time to perfect these tactics as they seem to work very well for other squads cyclops
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Flying with "The Few"   Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:30 am

Klingan wrote:
Well sure, we need to work on everyting. But we need to start somewhere Smile

I thought that the communication this time was much better then the last time.
But it is still a onesided communication. We need the guy with the bogey on his six to tell his intentions. Makes it easier for the wingman to decide the best action to kill the bogey.

(The Thumbs Up Icon if we had one) When anyone is inclined to wing up in the MA please do. I will wing up with anyone. If for example Kling and Vuo are both on and winging up I would join them "as tail end charlee".
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